tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-402829461499197766.post6988740318319259824..comments2023-10-24T09:18:12.635-04:00Comments on Underneath the Bridge: Help Me Help You, Or, Show Me The MoneyBlogless Trollhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03983848259551488867noreply@blogger.comBlogger47125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-402829461499197766.post-66138774782113355362008-09-30T07:06:00.000-04:002008-09-30T07:06:00.000-04:00YOu've got a point. Kinda scary, isn't it?YOu've got a point. Kinda scary, isn't it?Robin B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/11471528485010071521noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-402829461499197766.post-42485144354100813622008-09-30T00:27:00.000-04:002008-09-30T00:27:00.000-04:00Yeah, but bailout or no bailout there was going to...Yeah, but bailout or no bailout there was going to be pain.<BR/><BR/>I've had some experience with government at a state level gobbling up the private market in order to protect the citizens. Watching them try to run a company would be hilarious if we weren't all paying for it, but it's downright scary. I guess it's possible there's less incompetence and corruption at the federal level, but I kinda doubt it.Blogless Trollhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03983848259551488867noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-402829461499197766.post-65362856270213134552008-09-29T18:47:00.000-04:002008-09-29T18:47:00.000-04:00So the House of Representatives musta gotten tons ...So the House of Representatives musta gotten tons of calls from Everyman, huh? <BR/><BR/>Yeah.<BR/><BR/>Go check your 401Ks.Robin B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/11471528485010071521noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-402829461499197766.post-46105772846773292522008-09-29T09:59:00.000-04:002008-09-29T09:59:00.000-04:00Yep. I agree with you about the elections.And, wha...Yep. I agree with you about the elections.<BR/><BR/>And, what we haven't faced yet is, our time as number one in the spotlight on the world stage has passed, to everyone but us.<BR/><BR/>Apparently I forget it sometimes, too. Case in point:<BR/><BR/>I was talking to JB the other night<BR/>and he said something about how Europeans perceive the candidates, and I said something like "Who gives a rolling fuck what they think? This is not their country!"<BR/>and he looked at me over his reading glasses and smiled a smile of sympathy, basically.<BR/><BR/>Wall Street is gone, guys. Wall Street as a concept is in London and Dubai and a few other places.<BR/><BR/>I'm not saying we're third tier or anything, but we ain't on top of the heap, either. Not any more. <BR/><BR/>And I agree, after having worked in this town for a while now, it just about doesn't matter who's elected. Maybe I feel that way because I can't get behind either set of candidates without a silent snicker that this whole process has gone the way of the dodo, or the sound bite machine. <BR/><BR/>Take your pick.Robin B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/11471528485010071521noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-402829461499197766.post-76633541319883028272008-09-29T00:28:00.000-04:002008-09-29T00:28:00.000-04:00Robin, I agree the blame game is pretty useless fr...Robin, I agree the blame game is pretty useless from a practical standpoint. What you'll get is the person who poured the gasoline pointing a finger at the person who poured the kerosene, who's pointing a finger at the person who lit the match, who's pointing a finger at the person who refused to call 911, who's pointing a finger at the person who beat up the firefighters, etc. I would guess there will probably be a few high profile indictments eventually--and those people will deserve to be indicted--but they'll serve as scapegoats for the rest. I doubt Congress will place itself under arrest. The affordable housing/sub prime lending shenanigans is just a portion of it all.<BR/><BR/>The bailout will <I>maybe</I> buy some time. It will definitely, as Scott said, make the overall problem worse. But the world has changed in a big way, and like you said, most people don't realize it yet. It might take the destruction of the dollar to get them to look at the big picture. Either way, I still don't think it matters if we elect the right wing stooge or the left wing stooge.Blogless Trollhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03983848259551488867noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-402829461499197766.post-76626998754039253022008-09-28T12:38:00.000-04:002008-09-28T12:38:00.000-04:00""Here's what seems obvious to me: I...""Here's what seems obvious to me: If we don't do something to shore up the financial system holding each and every one of us together, keeping us employed, keeping us in our homes, keeping the trappings of society hummikng along around us, then we are one and all in big and just about insurmountable trouble.""<BR/><BR/>Actually, you've bought the spin on this. The system will survive and you'll be fine. It will all just readjust. Instead of borrowing money from a central bank, people will borrow from each other. Those with savings will find themselves in the enviable position of getting a good return in interest of their money.<BR/><BR/>Housing prices will fall and rentals will cheapen. People will lower their monthly by moving out of their 3500 dollar mortgage and into 1200 rent...<BR/><BR/>Saving will be rewarded and debt will be punished.<BR/><BR/>All this bailout does is add heroin to the arm of an addict...<BR/><BR/>Don't buy the hype.<BR/><BR/>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsC2k9opOP0&eurl=http://aeleope.blogspot.com/Scott from Oregonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01331284708780612453noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-402829461499197766.post-18138870149390179772008-09-27T08:35:00.000-04:002008-09-27T08:35:00.000-04:00Here's what seems obvious to me: If we don't do so...Here's what seems obvious to me: If we don't do something to shore up the financial system holding each and every one of us together, keeping us employed, keeping us in our homes, keeping the trappings of society hummikng along around us, then we are one and all in big and just about insurmountable trouble.<BR/><BR/>At this point, it doesn't fucking matter who did what (and that history has, again, repeated itself in the pattern of young-asswipes-with-so-sense-of-history-overextend-their-nuts-over-their-IQs-to-the detriment-of-the-whole-group, a la the 1980s bailouts and fuckups).<BR/><BR/>These tattle-tale types who whine and whine and blame, aren't FIXING anything, because they don't know how to do so. Neither do I. But I know I don't know, and therein lies the difference.<BR/><BR/>First, get the system back on shaky but decently firm ground. THEN, indict and imprison. <BR/><BR/>And by the way, Wall Street as it was known, no longer exists. I'm good with that - but I wonder how many people actually get it- Wall Street no longer exists, in the traditional sense, other than on a street map.Robin B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/11471528485010071521noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-402829461499197766.post-63963341589016215432008-09-25T16:49:00.000-04:002008-09-25T16:49:00.000-04:00There's gonna be a lot more of this. But I guess t...There's gonna be a lot more of <A HREF="http://biz.yahoo.com/cnnm/080925/092508_bailout_protests.html" REL="nofollow">this</A>. But I guess that's what those nonlethal packages are for.Blogless Trollhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03983848259551488867noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-402829461499197766.post-10289277196859856322008-09-25T13:51:00.000-04:002008-09-25T13:51:00.000-04:00hum.hum.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-402829461499197766.post-81721564745725627192008-09-24T21:41:00.000-04:002008-09-24T21:41:00.000-04:00Posse Comiwhatsit? Oh yeah, I forgot. That was rep...Posse <A HREF="http://www.armytimes.com/news/2008/09/army_homeland_090708w/" REL="nofollow">Comiwhatsit</A>? Oh yeah, I forgot. That was repealed.Blogless Trollhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03983848259551488867noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-402829461499197766.post-23424495267274077422008-09-23T15:34:00.000-04:002008-09-23T15:34:00.000-04:00Thanks Mrs. Chuck Woolery.Ve, welcome to you too. ...Thanks Mrs. Chuck Woolery.<BR/><BR/>Ve, welcome to you too. I've actually been reading your blog for a while, so I guess that makes me a peeping tom. You should really run a background check before the first date. Safety first.<BR/><BR/>Paca, asinine is always appreciated here. <BR/><BR/><BR/>Here's a nice <A HREF="http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,426485,00.html" REL="nofollow">companion piece</A> to that spin detecting software article I linked to earlier. No need to worry. There will be no reduction in the chocolate ration this year...Blogless Trollhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03983848259551488867noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-402829461499197766.post-68982853480146467382008-09-23T02:44:00.000-04:002008-09-23T02:44:00.000-04:00I just want to know why you hate Christmas.(Sorry,...I just want to know why you hate Christmas.<BR/><BR/>(Sorry, I could participate productively, but 35 comments later, I'll just go for asinine.)pacatruehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04125048243775811714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-402829461499197766.post-87631094351113115562008-09-23T02:25:00.000-04:002008-09-23T02:25:00.000-04:00I can't believe you mentioned Christmas already. ...I can't believe you mentioned Christmas already. The only important thing between now and the end of the year is that I get all the really important hard-to-get cool consumer goods and you don't. I'm sure Macy's will write me an interest only loan so that when I move to a non-extradite country they can have you pay for it. Or...were you just talking politics?Ed & Jeannehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00730956006290504616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-402829461499197766.post-27014255980179343802008-09-22T11:13:00.000-04:002008-09-22T11:13:00.000-04:00Hi BT,I won't talk about the bailout, though I'm t...Hi BT,<BR/><BR/>I won't talk about the bailout, though I'm tempted too. I just want to re-read "We" or "1984" again....<BR/><BR/>Anyway, the purpose of this comment is to make a blogger love-connection. I'd like to introduce you to Ve, who has a similar sense of humor and political bent as you do. Here's his blog:<BR/>http://vehow.blogspot.com/<BR/><BR/>I've left a message on his blog to visit you as well.<BR/><BR/>I have a high success rate at these blogger love-connections. The other two connections are still going strong...<BR/><BR/>:-)Chris Eldinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11794946908789120139noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-402829461499197766.post-694009045140157222008-09-22T00:30:00.000-04:002008-09-22T00:30:00.000-04:00I would like to thank everyone for their comments,...I would like to thank everyone for their comments, especially Pete who made me think about things I normally wouldn't have. That, to me, is the real benefit of debate. Not whether you can sway the other person, but whether you can be honest with yourself and learn something in the process. Feel free to keep discussing amongst yourselves, but I think after the events the past week I'm done with it. It's like dreaming about how great the Star Wars prequels could've been if only a self-absorbed megalomaniac hadn't been in charge. <BR/><BR/>This financial crisis is only beginning. 700 billion (which does not include the billions already pledged to Fannie and Freddie and AIG, etc.) won't even begin to cover it. It's not just bad mortgages. It's credit default swaps and interest rate swaps and derivatives of derivatives all intertwined and wrapped up in each other, and as those positions unwind it will be very bad. No matter how many points the Dow rallies. Many commercial banks will fail. The Treasury's gonna bail out foreign banks? Sure. Why not? <BR/><BR/>Whatever is done, whatever is said about this financial crisis, always remember: it was allowed to happen. It didn't spring up and catch everyone by surprise in the past three weeks. People have been talking about this kind of scenario for several years. There are plenty of people to blame, including Alan Greenspan, but paying attention to what happens from here on out is much more important than pointing fingers. This is a huge consolidation of financial power. Plus, I don't know what you call it, all out corporatism? Economic fascism? I don't know. Pick your own term for it. Just don't listen to the excuses: protecting homeowners, protecting the American people. Yeah, that's the only option now. But it was allowed to get to the point where it imploded. For whatever reason. Incompetence could be a legitimate reason. But I'm getting tired of "incompetence" resulting in "sweeping new powers" for the government. And if it really is innocent incompetence on the government's part, watch out. They're the one's trying to fix it. Our entire monetary system is a house of cards built with invisible cards and mortared with the confidence of the people which we bought from confidence men. It runs on faith. And I've lost mine.<BR/><BR/>Anyway, thanks again. I'm sure I'll post something in the not too distant future. Maybe a dolphin will do something funny.Blogless Trollhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03983848259551488867noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-402829461499197766.post-62225587523289831392008-09-21T23:14:00.000-04:002008-09-21T23:14:00.000-04:00Ril, that sucks. On the other hand, it's possible ...Ril, that sucks. On the other hand, it's possible you have exactly the same influence as we do here without the hassle of large crowds at the polls.<BR/><BR/>And not to nitpick or anything, but after this weekend I think the correct punctuation is The "Leader" of the "Free" World.Blogless Trollhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03983848259551488867noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-402829461499197766.post-19600192236132875742008-09-21T11:40:00.000-04:002008-09-21T11:40:00.000-04:00My point was, the more power Congress legislates t...<I>My point was, the more power Congress legislates to the executive branch, the worse off we are.</I><BR/><BR/>I concede. Perhaps it should become illegal for a former Congressperson to become President. I bet Congress will vote this in right after they agree to term limits.PJDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05028687955957107957noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-402829461499197766.post-11182874632201211562008-09-21T09:34:00.000-04:002008-09-21T09:34:00.000-04:00Me, I don't get a vote. I'm officially disenfranch...Me, I don't get a vote. I'm officially disenfranchised. I don't get a vote in my "home" country because I don't live there any more and so don't qualify. I don't get a vote in my "host" country, where I've lived and paid taxes for the past 10 years, because I'm just a visitor, passing through, and they really don't want The Help having a say in things. And of course, I don't get a vote in "The Leader of the Free World", because I'm not one of you, so I just get to watch, filtered through CNN and Fox News, where it's all just entertainment. <BR/><BR/>Really, I envy you guys your choice. Use it. If nothing else, it gives you the right to complain when the wrong person gets in; and statistically, it's always going to be the wrong person for half of you...rilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06988777482435230194noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-402829461499197766.post-30447931592222098072008-09-21T08:41:00.000-04:002008-09-21T08:41:00.000-04:00Hey, BT. Thanks. I just lookd around and found it....Hey, BT. Thanks. I just lookd around and found it...<BR/><BR/><I>Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job. <BR/><BR/>Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy</I><BR/><BR/>I second that emotion. Opinion. Whatever.Robin B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/11471528485010071521noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-402829461499197766.post-82658525668918436632008-09-21T00:14:00.000-04:002008-09-21T00:14:00.000-04:00Chris, dry flush toilets you say? Hmmmm.Like I sai...Chris, dry flush toilets you say? Hmmmm.<BR/><BR/>Like I said before, I think Obama will probably win the election. Whether he's any different only time will tell. I'll believe it when I see it. I will also gladly admit I was wrong.<BR/><BR/>WW, I know exactly what you mean about the one pet issue.<BR/><BR/>Pete, <BR/><BR/><I>Seems to me, then, that any middle of the road thinker would be invested in ensuring that we don't stay on one tack for too long.</I><BR/><BR/>My point is it doesn't matter which tack we're on because we're going the wrong way.<BR/><BR/>No, I'm not talking about the consolidation of power among a ruling elite class. Some ruling class has been ruling since the dawn of time. Doesn't matter if their last name is Bush, or Gore, or Clinton, or Jefferson. Doesn't matter if they were born into it or if they clawed their way up the ladder. Once you're there, you're there. Anyone who thought Bush was not part of the ruling class probably also thinks McCain is a maverick. I don't place much value on either term--elitist or maverick, or any of these labels people throw around. Labels are coat racks for your brain. Stick someone with a label, you don't have to think about them anymore. They are what the label says. So I guess ideally you'd want to get yourself stuck with a positive label like "reformer" or "bringer of change."<BR/><BR/>The ones who argued for a stronger central government were afraid of the tyranny of the majority, the tyranny of the people, which is just as dangerous as tyranny of the government. And they set the whole thing up so that no one--not even the people--had all the power. My point was, the more power Congress legislates to the executive branch, the worse off we are. Not that it's a new phenomenon. It's just seems to be accelerating. <BR/><BR/>McK, <BR/><BR/><I>There is so little perception that there is a bit wide world out there.</I><BR/><BR/>What? You mean, like, Hawaii?<BR/><BR/><I>However, they then regretfully added that in all probability the vast majority of undecideds, will see the names 'Obama' vs 'McCain' on the ballot, and vote for McCain, even those who have no idea who either of the candidates are, simply because it's an anglo-style name.</I><BR/><BR/>BUT, they'll incorrectly operate the voting machine and in casting their vote for McCain they will have actually voted for Pat Buchanan and Chris Matthews. It's just as horrifying watching it from here.<BR/><BR/>Robin, there's a quote by Douglas Adams about that. The personality thing. I don't remember what it is.Blogless Trollhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03983848259551488867noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-402829461499197766.post-56722153936276675682008-09-20T07:06:00.000-04:002008-09-20T07:06:00.000-04:00A majority of people prefer gossip to thinking. An...<I> A majority of people prefer gossip to thinking. And the media sells it to them. Maybe the only difference is the volume, it’s just more amplified now. I don’t know.</I><BR/><BR/>Actually, I think you're right. People blieve reality TV is real.<BR/><BR/>I think both tickts are about as suspect as reality TV. I hate spin and pseudo-reality.<BR/><BR/>Without doublespeak, I want to see, laid side by side in easy to read format - the voting records, the number of abstentions from dfficult choices, specific background that would give these people the backbone and reasoning ability to be able to 'rule over me'.<BR/><BR/>Frankly, I find the personalities of people who feel strongly that they should be <I>the leader</I> already a big minus.Robin S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03258459688300851984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-402829461499197766.post-54574068284640312962008-09-20T00:51:00.000-04:002008-09-20T00:51:00.000-04:00We are fed nonsense, and it's no wonder most peopl...<I>We are fed nonsense, and it's no wonder most people walk around in a daze.</I><BR/><BR/>I've lived in several countries now, and the US' idea of 'news' absolutely horrified me. There is so little perception that there is a bit wide world out there.<BR/><BR/>I've got to say that most people here seem to think that you have a fairly easy decision to make. However, I heard an interesting discussion on radio here which lined up some of the thoughts on Obama vs McCain. It was a fascinating, opinionated discussion, by the end of which the commentators had decided that you (collectively, as in the US) would be insane not to elect Obama.<BR/><BR/>However, they then regretfully added that in all probability the vast majority of undecideds, will see the names 'Obama' vs 'McCain' on the ballot, and vote for McCain, even those who have no idea who either of the candidates are, simply because it's an anglo-style name.<BR/><BR/>Horrifying.McKoalahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01457446171624585099noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-402829461499197766.post-74409514175811352202008-09-19T23:50:00.000-04:002008-09-19T23:50:00.000-04:00As far as the machine the president brings to Wash...<I>As far as the machine the president brings to Washington, I go back to the sailboat. We go left, we go right, but we zigzag forward toward the horizon of greater centralized government power, away from the Constitution. That's where I see no difference.</I><BR/><BR/>Seems to me, then, that any middle of the road thinker would be invested in ensuring that we don't stay on one tack for too long.<BR/><BR/>I am not 100% convinced that a strong federal government is "away from the constitution." The federal government was founded by very smart people, some of whom were in favor of strong central government and some of whom strongly favored states' rights.<BR/><BR/>I think perhaps what you're talking about is not necessarily strong federal government but rather the consolidation of power among a ruling elite class. The Bush dynasty is a classic symptom: father and son both serve as president (though it could be noted that a similar thing happened within the first few American presidents). Perhaps this is why Obama appeals so broadly--he ran against the Democratic counterpart to the Bush dynasty in the primaries. And why people voted for George Bush instead of Gore or Kerry. They perceived Gore and Kerry as part of a ruling elite class, the Clinton dynasty extended. Meanwhile, they thought they could have a beer with George Bush.<BR/><BR/>Turns out Bush is every bit as elitist ruling class as either of those guys.<BR/><BR/>So, in the interest of ensuring one set of ruling elite class does not get too much control, we should force a change of tack and elect the other side's ruling elite class.PJDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05028687955957107957noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-402829461499197766.post-65045506887311798952008-09-19T19:54:00.000-04:002008-09-19T19:54:00.000-04:00This is pretty much how I feel about political dis...This is pretty much how I feel about political disagreements at the office. *eye roll* What really bugs me is when people latch onto one single point and convince themselves that their pet issue is THE problem and to fix that one thing will solve every problem.writtenwyrddhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02280711822302493122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-402829461499197766.post-31965961896865393692008-09-19T17:37:00.000-04:002008-09-19T17:37:00.000-04:00BT, in all seriousness, I feel exactly the same in...BT, in all seriousness, I feel exactly the same in many regards.<BR/><BR/>When we live in Dubai, we get our news from the BBC. And man, I will tell you it is the opposite of what we get here ....discussions on what to wear when you're forty, what sauce goes with that chicken, etc. And Britney. Let's not forget the stars in rehab. Etc.<BR/><BR/>People in the U.S. (may I make a sweeping generalization?) have no freaking idea what they are missing. For example, every day on the BBC, there was an international focus story. The one that stuck with me was about a dry-flush toilet. Doesn't mean anything to us over here, but to millions in India who defecate in the same water source as their drinking water, it's a revolutionary idea. Stuff like that.<BR/><BR/>We are fed nonsense, and it's no wonder most people walk around in a daze. I really really cannot fathom how Sarah Palin is gaining popularity. The chick went to 4 colleges in 6 years. Does that say nothing about her commitment to achievement? Her intelligence? I shudder. <BR/><BR/>While I am cynical, I personally feel that Obama brings a fresh, authentic energy that has been lacking. Who knows how long it will be before it's sucked out of him. <BR/><BR/>This is an excellent post, BT. I'll probably reread it a few times..Chris Eldinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11794946908789120139noreply@blogger.com